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Error in Italian level 4, lesson 8?
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In Italian level 4, lesson 8, "Write the phrase you hear", an answer is given as "Vi sentite stanche perche; avete dovuto trasferirvi subito."
The next answer is given as "Vi sentite molto stanche perche; vi siete dovute trasferire qui subito." Because reflexive verbs take essere, I assume the second one is correct. Or does the first phrase take stare because the pronoun is attached to the end of the verb instead of before it? If so, does this apply to all reflexive verb phrases configured this way? Thanks -
Oof..... another complicated one! I had to confer with my tutor on this and, as always, she had a great write-up that explains this PERFECTLY and illustrates how both of the sentences in your - QUESTION- are correct. Mille grazie al miglior insegnante di italiano!: La signora Isabella Hostrup.
Reflexive or reciprocal verbs with modal verbs in past tense: ESSERE or AVERE?When in a sentence in passato prossimo, a modal verb is followed by the infinitive form of any reflexive or reciprocal verb, you can use either Essere or Avere, but you have to follow the rules below. The two forms are equally common and used.-
If you put the reflexive pronoun before the auxiliary verb, you must use the auxiliary ESSERE which is the auxiliary of reflexive verbs.Example: Maria si è dovuta alzare molto presto. Maria had to wake up very early.The past participle must agree with the subject: Maria = singular and feminine, as with any past tense using ESSERE.
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When instead you attach the reflexive pronoun to the infinitive you must use the auxiliary AVERE and no agreement is necessary with the past participle but in both cases the reflexive pronoun agrees with the subject.Examples: Maria ha dovuto alzarsi molto presto. Maria had to wake up very early.Voi avete dovuto alzarvi molto presto. You all had to wake up very early.The past participle (dovuto) now doesn't agree anymore because you are using AVERE, the reflexive pronoun attached to the infinitive agrees with the subject.
Examples:I bambini si sono voluti divertire. I bambini hanno voluto divertirsi.The kids wanted to have fun.NOTE: You can use the reflexive pronoun only once, just change its place. That place cannot ever be between modal verb and reflexive verb. This rule applies to all the tenses that use a helping verb.Maria si sarebbe dovuta lavare i capelli. Maria should have washed her hair.Maria avrebbe dovuto lavarsi i capelli.
NOTE: If a direct object pronoun is present, you must do the agreement even with AVERE, if it precedes the modal verb (we will see that later).(Marie e Lisa) Le abbiamo potute vedere. Abbiamo potuto vederle.
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Thanks so much for the very detailed explanation. (I think!) It's a bit overwhelming, so I'll have to go over it several times to let it sink in. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this. Grazie mille!
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Prego! Isabella's explanation is a lot to digest (in the interest of covering all the angles). If I had to take a stab at an abbreviated response, it basically comes down to this: When a modal verb (in this case "dovere") is used in the past-tense, the auxiliary/helping verb can be EITHER essere or avere. If you use essere: - the pronoun (vi) has to precede the auxiliary (dovuto) and reflexive (trasferire) verbs - the auxiliary verb has to be modified to agree with the subject (dovut e ) as is always the case with essere " vi siete dovut e trasferire" If you use avere: - the pronoun (vi) has to be attached to the reflexive verb (trasferir vi ) - the auxiliary verb doesn't have to be modified to agree with the subject (dovut o ) "avete dovut o trasferir vi " (crazy, I know..)
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Thanks again, Dirk - and Isabella! You're further explanation makes the rules very clear. It helps a lot.