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Per Adesso

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Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Feb 22, 2014 at 5:58pm

Why do you say that there is no "for" in Italian, but then use "per" (for ) in a sentence like "Solo l' insalata per adesso. But then you do not use it in a sentence like, "Aseptto un collega" (I'm waiting for a colleague)?

ktlundstrom
Posts: 0
Hastings, MN
United States
Registered:
Aug 26, 2013
Feb 22, 2014 at 7:07pm

Great question. I'm having the same problem trying to grasp the concept of when to use "per" in place of "for." Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Riff251
Posts: 0
Webster, NY
United States
Registered:
Mar 7, 2013
Feb 23, 2014 at 10:24am

Hi Avery,
"Per" does mean "for" in Italian. As you note.
However, the verb Aspettare includes "for" in it's meaning. It's translated as "to wait for". That's why you don't want to use 'Per' in sentences which use the verb Aspettare. It would be redundant. There are other verbs that function the same way. I don't know if you've learned it yet but Cercare is the same. It translates as "to look for." Hope this helps.

Jensitalian
Posts: 0
Batavia, IL
United States
Registered:
Apr 3, 2013
Feb 24, 2014 at 3:36pm

The word 'for' has many different uses in English. Your examples use it in two different ways. In the first case it is used to indicate a duration of time: 'for now'. In the second case it is used to indicate the object of an action: 'waiting for a colleague'. Another common use is to indicate an intended recipient or beneficiary: 'a gift for my sister' (un regalo per mia sorella). In the first and third situations, you use 'per'. I think it's the second case that gives English speakers trouble (at least in my case!) In Italian, you don't use 'for' to indicate the object of the action.

As Riff251 stated, some Italian verbs include 'for' in the meaning of the verb. Aspettare doesn't just mean 'to wait', but also 'to wait for'. Cercare means
'to look for'. And the one I mess up the most - pagare can mean 'to pay for'. We have verbs like this in English, too, but they are less common. For example: You would say 'I seek employment', not 'I seek for employment'. But of course, 'I look FOR a job'. Or, 'I await your response' rather than 'I await for your response'. But 'I wait FOR your response'. Actually, there are many verbs in English that don't use 'for' to indicate the object of the action - it is just implied in the verb. Why do we 'buy a gift' but have to 'pay for a gift'? We would never think to say 'buy for a gift'! I imagine a native Italian speaker would feel the same about 'aspetto PER un college".

I think the tricky thing for English speakers learning Italian is to recognized when the 'for' in English is used to indicate the object of an action. Think about the sentence 'I am looking for a gift for my sister'. It contains the phrase 'for a gift' and also 'for my sister'. The object of the action (looking) is 'gift' - that is what is being looked for. 'My sister' is not what is being looked for, but the intended recipient of that object. So you say 'cerco un regalo' (without per), but 'per mia sorella' (with per). Or the sentence 'I waited for a colleague for an hour', which contains 'for a colleague' and also 'for an hour'. The object of the action is 'a colleague'. 'For an hour' indicates a duration of time. So it is 'ho aspettato il mio college' (without per), and 'per un' ora' (with per).

I'm not an expert in Italian - I'm not quite through level 3 - so I don't know if there are verbs in Italian that do use a preposition ('per' or something else) to indicate the object of an action. It might just be easiest to memorize the fact that aspettare translates to 'to wait FOR', etc. But I like to understand the reasoning behind something so I can apply it to other cases in the future.

ktlundstrom
Posts: 0
Hastings, MN
United States
Registered:
Aug 26, 2013
Feb 24, 2014 at 5:01pm

Jensitalian -- this is very helpful. Thanks so much for your great explanation! :)

Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Feb 24, 2014 at 5:32pm

Thanks Riff251. Yes it helps greatly!

Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Feb 24, 2014 at 5:34pm

Thanks Jensitalian. You have been very helpful.

FluenzLab
Posts: 0
Miami, Fl
United States
Registered:
Feb 5, 2011
May 27, 2014 at 5:37am

Ciao Avery

You have hopefully moved on a lot since you posted your question. It sounds like maybe you misunderstood Sonia's explanation that there is not "for" in Italian. What she meant was that there is no translation for the "for" in "wait for" but of course in other instances we can translate "for" with "per". You've probably seen for yourself by now that we tend to introduce grammar slowly to give you enough time to learn it properly. The use of "per" for "for" is one of these cases where we slowly introduce the different uses to you. With a tricky grammar point like this one it's often very useful to make a list of the different uses as we introduce them in the program. I know it can be frustrating to not have all the answers straightaway but imagine if we asked you to know everything from lesson 1. So keep at it and trust us to slowly introduce new expressions and structures to you. As for your explanations, Riff251 and Jensitalian, great job! The more you see and practise the easier it will get!

Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Dec 27, 2014 at 1:16pm

Grazie Fluenzlab!

Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Feb 15, 2015 at 4:21pm

Thanks Fluenzlab

Avery Nichols
Posts: 0
Fort Worth, Texas
United States
Registered:
Jan 26, 2011
Mar 29, 2015 at 6:02pm

Thanks FluenzLab. I like going slow, it gives me time to grasp Italian in small doses. Where I grow the most in my studies is when I start to learn those simple words like: out, just, only, behind, around, over there, back to, each, better, etc...... these little words help me more to structure my own sentences so much easier. But also having you guys there to answer my questions means a lot also. So thanks you!

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